Please note that the this  article by Treena Gisborn has been updated. Also there are current comments from this update and everyone is encouraged to please read them, as they bring even more clarity and understanding to this confused issue that Bill Randles seems, for what ever reasons, to relish/wallow in. Many thanks Treena, blessings



I have moved this post from December 2018 to the current date rather than writing again. Bill Randles has decided to revive his vilification of David Nathan due to his break with Jacob Prasch.

This is why I cannot deal with Bill Randles.. he is totally disingenuous. He clearly did not speak to David Nathan about the Blood of Jesus during the millennium, or in fact any other issue prior to the Q&A session(s)! Incidentally, I am only aware of one Q&A session.

Always, many thanks to you Treena. I do find this ironic that he continues to beat that horse and it’s dead, dead, dead. Yet he is not satisfied with David Nathan’s response; or perhaps by using a laser beam light on specifics that he picks and chooses it will keep the light off of Jacob and his many errors? We don’t get to pick and choose where the light shines.
Eph 5:13  But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

One more thing. I can only imagine if this statement:
 The Holy Spirit will not restrain.. He  (the Holy Spirit)will not operate the way Jesus predicted He would in John’s gospel convicting the world of sin, of righteousness and judgement. (John 16:8)”
was quoted by David Nathan, I’ve no doubt that the torches would be flaming and the tar and feathers at the ready along with videos, articles and more. However it belongs to Jacob Prasch, he will have to own this one and how does he explain that Jesus’s prediction of the what the Holy Spirit does is wrong? Oh, no one in his camp is asking him to explain himself, nor his faithful followers. Thankful God woke us up a few years ago. Blessing to you Treena.


For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. (Mathew 7:2).

Having declared his “epiphany” just a few days ago, Bill Randles has reverted back to type and continues to drag David Nathan’s name through the mud!


“Why There Is Still A Question… (David Nathan)

Bill Randles:
So what is my problem? Why haven’t I ‘forgiven ‘ him? * 

My problem is that David has never explained why he said such an outrageous thing in the first place, and I have never heard him once specifically repudiate it. “In my view, the original issue which triggered all of this boils down to two statements of David Nathan’s; 
  1.  The blood of Jesus will not profit anyone anything in the Millennium” and the twin statement in which Nathan strongly asserts that the blood sacrifices offered in the Millennium are in no way memorial. In other words, they do not point back to the cross of Jesus, as the Lord’s Supper does.
  2. ” God the Father did not Create anything”... 

Lets go over the facts again shall we?

David Nathan has explained that his statement about the Blood of Jesus was badly expressed and that he was not succinct etc. Could it be any clearer Bill Randles?

David Nathan: “The statement which I should not have made but rather should have sought to express myself very differently and that folk have objected to is, “The Blood of Jesus will not profit anyone, anything in the Millennium.” In using this phrase, which I regret, I was not stating that the Blood of Jesus does not cleanse in all ages as this would be a clear violation of scripture. His blood alone can take away sin and every sacrifice from Genesis 3:21, when the Lord clothed Adam and Eve in tunics of skin to the sacrifices of the Millennium all point to Jesus. In the teaching I kept using the word atone to describe the purpose of the millennial sacrifices in the sense that they do not remove sin but cover sin. I reiterate again that I do not teach nor believe that the sin of an animal or animals can ever remove sin. Not under the Old Testament, not now nor in the age to come. Only the Blood of Jesus can remove sin both now and forever, including the millennium. This is and has always been what I have believed though I did not express it succinctly in the series on Eschatology.”

David Nathan: “The bible is absolutely clear that God is the creator. The Father ordained creation. Jesus was the creator in perfect unity with the Father.. not that God the Father was not involved in creation..”

I find it very hard to understand Bill Randles continued persistence in vilifying David Nathan. Amos Farrell gave some good advice that he should have directed towards himself: 

I am no apologist for David Nathan by any means, but I cannot stand idly by while complete distortions of the truth are employed in order to destroy another believer. Prasch and his sycophants will have to give an answer for their wicked behaviour in this matter. (Matthew 7:2).

In the meantime, although he has had a complete month to do so, Bill Randles hasn’t had time to examine Prasch’s dubious intra-seal teachings including “Counting the Omer”, and statements like “the Holy Spirit will not be in the world during the 70th week of Daniel”,“Pentecost is reversed”, etc. It would take perhaps an hour at the most for an experienced bible scholar/teacher to examine intra-seal and to find that it is utterly false. So what is the agenda?


  1. Yes I have everything, the video, comments and blog post. Funny how quick Bill Randles is to back peddle when adversity hits him. This seems to be his MO, dubious as always.

  2. When Bill Randles recorded a video of himself reading his article in which he attacked Jacob Prasch and David Nathan, Amos Farrell of Genesis Christian Radio and TV (GCR TV) wrote the following abusive message to Bill Randles in response in the comments section beneath it:

    Bill you are a double-dealer who deletes posts that show you in your true colors. You have raised as issue without the courage to say who you speak off, hoping to gather support and a following from what was once a respected ministry. To then simply re-read your blog post shows you have nothing more to say. Bil you are a shadow of the man you used to here is my original reply. YOU HAVE ASKED FOR COMMENTS HAVE THE COURAGE TO TAKE THE NEGATIVE WITH A WILLINGNESS TO ACCEPT YOUR FAILINGS AND DOUBLE STANDARDS>Bill what is going on, why are you publishing a blog that was always closed to your church and a few selected supporters? why have you deemed it relevant to put this on the public domain? Is this mischief or a genuine desire to voice an issue that can benefit the cause of the truth and edify the church.why do i fear there is a duplicitous character now becoming evident in your posts and character. This serves no purpose what so ever except to attack and condemn someone who has said nothing but the truth. You even confirm this again in your post. Your liberal side is taking over from the robust conservative attitude and values you once held and is starting to shine a light on your real intentions. So perhaps you don’t like the way Jacob or Joshua stands up for the truth, but at least they are honest and their intentions are plainly seen. They are not playing to a crowd or seeking adoration and kudos. The defence of the faith and protection of the vulnerable is their only objective. So tell us, Bill, what is your intention? you cant even say daid Nathans name, but allude to it, you cant say Deborah Menalaws name but we all know who you mean. It’s an old English saying, “call a spade a spade” aka speak the truth without fear of favour and stand up and be the man you once were. You were anointed and appointed by GOD, and to him only should you fear, why then are you trying to be friends with the world and the deceivers and truth twisters who you should be condemning and warning others about. The global church is in a mess because men have not done their duty and stood and challenged apostasy and heresy and guided brethren away from it. Saying you agree with someone else who does, then condemning that person is treachery and shameful and underlies the real character of a man.
    Zephaniah 3:4
    Her prophets are reckless, treacherous men; Her priests have profaned the sanctuary. They have done violence to the law. Could this have been part of your agenda, to have revenge against Jacob and blame him for your failures at B.I.G. to hide your guilt while using Moriel as a smokescreen and hide your problems? Kristin has become you litmus tester who gauges peoples reaction that you then ratify and claim as yours. You might wear trousers, but she tells you which ones to wear.2 Samuel 11:15
    He had written in the letter, saying, “Place Uriah in the front line of the fiercest battle and withdraw from him, so that he may be struck down and die.

    Lisa Welch replied to Amos with the classic statement “And Amos you are an insane lying lunatic.”

    Unfortunately at about 2:15pm GMT Bill Randles deleted his video and the associated comments. However, I thought it best to record Amos’ comments as they are so deeply unbecoming of a man who claims to be a Christian, and they echoed the same thuggish bullying we saw from him in his stupid conspiracy theory video that I critiqued in ‘The Good, The Bad, and The Echo Chamber’ video last Christmas.

  3. Mike and Frank do me a favor, just lets keep this between us please, we cab discuss this, I don’t want you to post my last two comments- I may post publically perhaps later but not now- You are welcome to share with Kawaii but you really should consider nixing the personally insulting attacks on me on this thread.

  4. just look at the comments on this thread! I it alright with you that I am so maligned by people such as Jane who accuse me of being a mindless cult follower? Or Highandrail who wants to discuss my fat body ? Really HighandTrail? I can’t be trusted? I have forty years of ministry integrity, I preach the word of God and am sixty years old. Yes I am not in the shape I once was, and that is on me I suppose(no excuses) but really? This passes for spiritual discussion? Treena is allowed to judge me as a false witness? Lianne accuses me of denying Jacob is a spiritual abuser, I haven’t discounted anyone’s account, why do you think this alright to do to a brother? Really?

  5. I just saw that the floor was mine, thanks- I already sent you a fuller e-mail but here is the first portion of it-
    Bill Randles
    2:23 PM (0 minutes ago)

    to closingstages

    Mike I would like to clear up some misconceptions that You, Frank Rogers and a person named tbcKawaii are furthering about my role in the recent Jacob Prasch David Nathan fiasco. I hope I can get Frank Roger’s and Kawaii’s e-mails as well.

    I have been a friend of Jacob Prasch’s until recently, and have travelled in similar circles, preaching in the same venues, etc. I have hosted Jacob in my own church BIG (Believers In Grace Fellowship) in the past.

    My problem with you, Frank and the mysterious tbckawaii is your lumping me with Prasch, and vilifying me unjustly on your blogs and in the ridiculously snide and slanderous series of videos that you promote.

    What got my attention was the headline “Bill Randles Continues his vilification of David Nathan” by Treena Gisborn.
    In the first place, I have not vilified David Nathan, in all of my interaction with him I have gone out of my way to be decent and respectful to him, as you can see here, and here , and even in the article which you and treena find so objectionable, here, .
    I challenge you to show me one instance of me abusing David Nathan in any way shape or form. I am a friend of the Nathan’s and still count myself to be so, and have never abused him in writing or otherwise. (I am sure he himself would affirm this, so I am copying him)

  6. Dear Frank, why do you think I need to justify anything Jacob says? I have critiqued him as effectively as any of you, I am not Moriel, and have never been, although I admit to being a friend of Jacobs (in spite of his flaws)

  7. Bill we most certainly are willing to listen to you respectfully. I have listened to your teachings before and so respect you as a pastor. You say you have been misrepresented but I did not read the rest. I’m happy to wait for your full response before responding. God bless

  8. Mike- or Frank I would like a dialogue with either or both of you, as I believe I have been maligned and misrepresented on this page and in your accounts and in Hackawaii’s account of the whole Jacob/David Nathan fiasco. I am a serious pastor and proponent of the Gospel and take exception to being misrepresented without a

  9. I was always able to endure Prasch’s brashness, and look past it as I did esteem him as a uncompromising New York half Irish fighting truth teller. I defended him often as best I could as others such as the menelaws have done. What I was most shocked about over the last few years is how many lies, half truths, manipulative twisting, and slander. I was honestly broken hearted to watch as I still want to consider him a brother in Christ but it has become nearly impossible to do so. No matter how powerful our ministry is, how talented or how long we have walked with the Lord, we all are capable of letting our pride, our sin, pull us unknowingly away from being planted in him. That is why we always must daily humble our spirits and hearts and ask God to search us before we look at the errors of others, even when we do it for the right reasons.

  10. I agree with your view on Bill Randles, that’s one reason it was so hard to watch Bill as it appeared at times he literally was twisting in the wind. It was clear that he was torn between friendship, loyalties and in particular the Scriptures. It’s clear where he stands today and that is firmly with Jacob Prasch. I also agree that “doctrinal semantics”, as you say, was just a ploy and excuse for Jacob to further violate not only David Nathan but other brothers and sisters in Christ. That’s what Jacob does he twists it to suit his flesh. There is clear doctrine on his behavior, one of course is the fruit of the Spirit and he shows none in these circumstances. Anton Bosch correctly identified it in his “Doctrine plus Character”

    Why do those who continue to partner with and support Jacob Prasch in his depravity stay and remain loyal, is a question only they can answer. Most of us who have come out of deception have experienced great loss; of relationships, shunning from those who once embraced us and we them; then ultimately we experienced the damning from leadership. Jacob is classic in this behavior of a false teacher. Cross him and he will burn you, that would include Bill Randles and still may at some point in time. God bless

  11. I have heard from people what a soft hearted and kind man Bill is. I think soft hearted kind people can be guilted into loyalty from abusive people, especially considering him and Prasch have been friends far more years then he has with David.

    I think I can guess how this whole thing got started, Treena G wrote in her book that David and Joe Schimmel don’t believe that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit as Jacob emphatically states. Jacob obviously keeps tabs on opposition to him and probably read it for himself. After finding that David had alternate opinions on eschatology, Jacob and David L thought they should pursued him to move to the UK to fall in line with Moriel doctrine. David remained independent and so Jacob had to heresy assasinate him and expected David take it lying down.

    I wish we could all agree that conduct, christian love, non slanderous behavior, humility is ATLEAST as important as clear doctrine. This worship of doctrinal semantics and stating that name calling is just some secondary issue is such a strange position. Clearly when you slander and hate fellow believers it doesn’t matter how perfect you expound on the scriptures

  12. It certainly is a choice that he has made, along with others that continue to support Prasch and never address his abusive behaviors, lies and railings. Not to mention the teachings that are contrary to scriptures and or have no scripture to support them. It’s clear that those who support him and allow him in their pulpits don’t do any serious examination of his teachings and from the way Bill Randles and others have behaved it’s apparent that they would rather stand with Prasch and his error. One can only assume that they believe every word that comes out of his mouth and don’t feel the need to fact check him on anything including and especially holding his teachings to the light of the scriptures.

  13. I would not ever listen to Bill Randles again. He does not have a mind if his own. A shame he belongs to the Jacob Prasch (moriel) Cult. Pity.😔😔😔😔😔😔😔

  14. It is apparent that Bill Randles is not someone that can be trusted for sound discernment or decision making. He is a man that has extreme personal problems that have never been dealt with before God, or there would have been some evident fruit. He is extremely clinically obese, and has gotten worse over the years (and his is not a “hormone imbalance”) So much of what is connected to Jacob Prasch is false teaching, unbalanced, and in general, just plain sick.

  15. Bill Randles has resorted to false witness in order to accuse David Nathan.. yet again! David Nathan DOES NOT teach that Jesus only created everything independently without the Father. I have listened to the tape and this is provably the case! It seems to me that those who seek to falsely accuse and humiliate David Nathan publicly should publicly repent and apologise to him. God is not mocked! (Galatians 6:7).

  16. Well said Lianne, yes Jacob is an abuser and a railer, who has been caught in lies and deception. I’m thankful for God using this to open the eyes of people who have been following him and now through all of this mess they can see the truth.

  17. If they stay focused on just David Nathan and repeat it enough times, they are hoping others will believe it and follow blindly, like themselves. I am thankful that some are seeing and separating from them.

  18. So David Nathan’s recent replies mean nothing to you? They obviously mean nothing to Bill Randles nor anyone else in the Moriel camp as they all either haven’t taken the time to listen to them or when they do they still aren’t satisfied and yet David has repented and humbled himself. Now perhaps they can focus on what needs to be corrected within their own ranks and with Jacob. We pray.

  19. Why, oh, why, does this continue? Why is David Nathan continuing to be attacked? His ministry is almost destroyed, and this attack, going on now for over five months, has taken a tremendous toll on him and his family, saved and unsaved. It has to STOP, and stop now. Surely David has already refuted these charges against his teaching; he has clarfied, corrected and retracted them.
    And, furthermore, Bill says that Jacob Prasch is no spiritual abuser, despite many coming forward to speak of their abuse at his hands. Bill just rubs salt into their wounds; by denying their abuse, he Just adds insult to injury.
    He also describes Jacob Prasch’s utterances as rhetoric. Wrong “R” word. See 1 Corinthians 5:11. It is railer or reviler depending on what version you read. See especially the Amplified Version. We are not to keep company or even eat with such a person.
    Bill, I am so disappointed in you. You’re much better than this.

  20. Proverbs 17:9 “Whoever covers an offense seeks love, but he who repeats a matter separates close friends.”

    “He that covereth a transgression — That passes by and buries in oblivion a transgression that hath been committed against himself; or that concealeth, as far as he may, other men’s faults against their friends or neighbours; seeketh love — Takes the best course to preserve friendships and to make himself universally beloved; but he that repeateth a matter — Who rakes up that fault again, and objects it afresh when it was forgotten; or that publishes and spreads it abroad; separateth very friends — Breaks the strictest bonds of amity, and makes an irreconcilable separation.”

    Thank you for sharing.
    God bless.

  21. Well,

    I listened to Nathan’s preach onnthis video

    Yes, he clearly preached it was a Jesus only creation period.

    Not once in his message did he deviate from this claim and he could have ask “should” have

    Now he’s back teaching which makes him appear 2 faced and unstable in his his teaching

    What I see is Nathan’s simply succumbing to pressure not conviction of belief

    Nathan’s is not a novice preacher and to miss clarity is not believable coming from an experienced teacher

    He simply does not want to lose his endorsements of Prasch and other credible teachers

    His motivation is to protect his name and reputation rather than protect the name of Christ and Truth

    Nathan’s I find highly suspect and had earned strong examination

    I side with Randles and find Nathan’s as one who is seeking acclaim and an edge on the truth seeking popularity for his insights of “new” teaching

    2 Thumbs down 👎 for Nathan’s Ana 2 thumbs up 👍 for Randles and Prasch

    Tim Smith

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