Bill Randles; Twists and Turns (eisegesis)  (1)

This is a sermon that Bill Randles did in July of this year. It reminds me so much of the multitude of sermons heard over the years spent in not only charismatic but IFB as well. There is always a mixture and method to these sermons. The mixture is using different scriptures that has no identifiable subject matter and blending them together, the method is  to make the chosen verses sound like they’re  speaking on the same topic. In this instance Matthew 7: 20-23 and 2 Corinthians 12:7-10.

“I want to clear another thing up, there’s not a Christian  that’s ever lived since Jesus came and died on the cross and rose from the dead, that didn’t struggle with this sin or that sin and sometimes those struggles can just hang on  and on and on. And just be a constant nemesis. I don’t even know what Paul’s thorn was, Paul said look, I had this thorn in the flesh and I prayed to God to remove it three times and He said your just going to have to live with it and find out that my grace is greater, it overcomes ok.  So Paul had his struggle, I’m not even saying it was a sin…..I don’t think it was. But God leaves us in a state of weakness naturally for the purpose of drawing us to his power. ….2 Corinthians where he says I glory now in my weaknesses. I am happy and praise God for my weaknesses, now that takes a lot of light to do that; because I bedevil my weaknesses constantly; why do I have this thing, why do I have that appetite, why do I have that. But  Paul say I praise God for my weaknesses because he says where I’m weak I’m strong and only a born again Christian can understand that. Why? Because the power of Christ is where we are suppose to turn not the power of self. So when our weaknesses do their work they push us to Christ. And we find that his power is perfect in weakness. So everyone struggles with various weaknesses. Nor am I saying that Christians never ever sin.”  (7 minute mark) – Bill Randles

Bill speaking of sin at the beginning of this is very misleading in that he references 2 Cor. 12 on Paul’s thorn in the flesh as if it were sin in Paul’s life, so, as an example, in ours as well. Bill tries to cover  somewhat, but not completely,  rectifying  this, by saying ; “  So Paul had his struggle, I’m not even saying it was a sin…..I don’t think it was” He does NOT clarify that Paul’s thorn in the flesh was NOT sin, just that he didn’t think it was, giving himself license to continue to use this text in the context of sinning, which is erroneous . He goes on to say how Paul was happy and praised “God for my weaknesses” and that Paul says “where I’m weak, I’m strong.” We don’t give God glory for sin that we struggle with. We aren’t happy for them. We fall on our faces and repent and turn from them, that’s what repentance is, a turning away from. If Paul’s struggle was sin he would have repented and God would have forgiven him. God doesn’t leave us in our sin and that’s what He would have had to do here with Paul; according to Bill’s teaching.  Bill compares Paul’s thorn in the flesh to his own struggles/sin…..has Bill been given a thorn in the flesh also? A messenger of Satan also? That would be a no.
All Bill is doing here is running through  a list of things he says he struggles with i.e. sin and comparing them to Paul’s thorn in the flesh. Bill goes on to say ” I bedevil my weaknesses constantly; why do I have this thing, why do I have that appetite, why do I have that.” This has absolutely nothing to do with the scripture in 2 Corinthians concerning Paul and it is wrong and deceptive to do a comparison of sin and weaknesses with these scriptures, as they are clearly not the same thing. Scripture is clear, Paul’s thorn in the flesh wasn’t sin.

 2 Corinthians  12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

In verse 7 “lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations,” That’s the reason for Paul’s thorn in the flesh, it’s not that he didn’t struggle but it was NOT sin. Note also that it reads that “it was given to me a thorn in the flesh” God doesn’t give us sin and the word “given” means
Definition: to give
Usage: I offer, give; I put, place. (2)

Let’s be clear that Paul’s thorn in the flesh was uniquely given him due to the “abundance of revelations” he was given by God.It’s not something that can or should be applied to our Christian daily struggles or walk much less sinning. However,  Bill  blurs the lines between what this scripture is speaking of as weaknesses, implying  sin.

2 Corinthians  12:10  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Pleasure: Greek: eudokeō  to think well of, that is, approve (an act); specifically to approbate (a person or thing): – think good, (be well) please (-d), be the good (have, take) pleasure, be willing. (3)

Paul would never take pleasure in sin, it’s absurd to even make a statement like Bill did. …. I’m not even saying it was a sin…..I don’t think it was” Leaving those that listen to this “sermon”  to wonder if it was or wasn’t!! Prayerfully they will do some fact checking of the scriptures.
Look at verse 10 again, Paul taking pleasure in infirmities, reproaches, necessities, persecutions and distresses for Christ’s sake. Again, clearly,  these things listed here are not sin and they would have to be according to Bill because he uses the last half of this verse for when I’m weak, then I am strong.
“So then our weaknesses do their work, they push us to Christ and we find that his power is perfect in weakness. So everyone struggles with various weaknesses. Nor am I saying that Christians never ever sin.” Bill never clears up the differences of weaknesses and sin and a simple reading of the entire text in 2 Corinthians would have done that. So for Bill to use  these scriptures to suggest sin is a serious misstep and misuse of scripture.

One other major point is that ALL, infirmities, reproaches, necessities, persecutions and distresses were for Christ’s sake not our personal sins and fleshly struggles.

It’s is just another example of how someone will cut and paste verses together to make their “sermon” sound better. Honestly I don’t know the reason, only he does.  It’s classic textbook cut and paste. So what will the congregation, or someone who is newly saved or even unsaved, take away from a sermon like this? Well for one if you claim to be saved and struggle with “sin” then you may not be saved at all, and two, if you compare your sin/weaknesses to Paul’s thorn in the flesh you can walk out of the church knowing that even Paul struggled too so we should glory in our weakness? This is just a confused mess.


 But here’s the thing I’m thinking, that I’ve heard this time and time again;“I’ve been a Christian since the 1970’s but I still struggle with porn or I still struggle with alcohol or some of the stuff like that but I’m a Christian, I love God with all my heart.” And you know the thought that just has been coming to me lately is, you know, it just might be that you really aren’t saved. And I don’t say that to hurt or insult anybody, that can actually be quite liberating. It just might be that you got yourself into a church someday, you’re touched emotionally but you never really were born again. And you don’t want to find that out at the end of your life. (minute mark 10:10) ~ Bill Randles

It’s stunning to see how quick he is to suggest that others that have addictions over years, may not be saved. So here is one of the main points of this entire article and know that this is not meant to be hurtful or insulting Bill; but when you have a morbidly obese man telling you that you may not be saved because you drink or smoke pot the entire message becomes void and ineffective. Gluttony is not a light thing in the scriptures, and it is also one of those sins that are immediately obvious, it’s not possible to hide it. The damage that it causes to the body and how it shortens one’s life is very serious and has devastating effects on loved ones. Should we doubt Bill’s salvation? If we hold him to his own teaching the answer would be yes we should.

Pro 23:20  Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: 

Proverbs 23:19-21 My child, listen and be wise: Keep your heart on the right course. Do not carouse with drunkards or feast with gluttons, for they are on their way to poverty, and too much sleep clothes them in rags.

 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 You know that you are God’s sanctuary and that God’s Spirit lives in you, don’t you? If anyone destroys God’s sanctuary, God will destroy him, for God’s sanctuary is holy. And you are that sanctuary!

Self Control: If you can’t control your appetite how can you control anything else?

 Proverbs 25:28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

 Titus 1:8 Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 

 1 Corinthians 9:27 I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified. 

. Philippians 3:19-20 They are headed for destruction. Their god is their appetite, they brag about shameful things, and they think only about this life here on earth. But we are citizens of heaven, where the Lord Jesus Christ lives. And we are eagerly waiting for him to return as our Savior.

 Let me read Titus 2 “the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us …I didn’t know that grace taught? When grace comes into your life and teaches you…what’s it teach you? To say no to your ungodly lusts. Teaching us to deny ungodly lusts and to live righteously, soberly, righteously and godly in this present world. If you really have the grace of God, just about the time you start to talk about that person behind their back a little voice will say “take that back” quite killing that person.(minute mark 34:27) ~Bill Randles

Or put the fork down and take a walk…..stop killing yourself. 

 Misconceptions of the nature of salvation, one great misconception and I have brought this up over and over again this is really  really important and I’m talking to you out there , you’ve been a Christian for 30 plus years and you’re in bondage to porn or alcohol  or pot or whatever it is , it’s got to be a miserable life. Your limping along but you still think your saved. And my challenge to you is, look,  I mean this with all respect and love I can muster. It just could be that you’re not saved, salvation gives us power over sin. I’m not saying I don’t sin but to be dominated by it….especially the exclusionary sins.(minute mark 39:13) ~Bill Randles

Yet again he is going through a list of sins and is suggesting  that one may not be saved if they have indeed been “sinning” for years and yet it’s obvious that Bill has also; by his struggle with gluttony and has been truly dominated by it.

MARK 50:34  If God is light and in him is no darkness at all, and you say you have eternal life then like God you hate sin….you hate it.  By the way you cannot be free from the slavery of sin unless you hate it. As long as you still love your sin, get real about your sins and habits and things like that. The reason your still enslaved to it is because you love it. The light of God makes war on sin, I can show you scripture, John gives one, don’t deceive yourselves little children …..he that is righteous doeth righteousness, he that sins in of the devil (minute mark 50:34) ~Bill Randles

It’s difficult to listen to this while watching Bill, as it’s clear that he is not comfortable standing and always shifting from one foot to the other to alleviate the weight on his feet  joints and bones. It’s also hard to listen to because it is so hypocritical, condemning others and  puts their salvation in question but not his own. This article isn’t about bashing Bill Randles because of his weight, much of Christendom has winked at being overweight. Gluttony seems to be the pardonable sin in churches; which perhaps it’s time to correct that due to the morbid obesity that is obvious in much of Christian leadership today. But most importantly gluttony is NOT a thorn in the flesh.  


39 thoughts on “Bill Randles; Twists and Turns (eisegesis)

  1. Pingback: A humble Apology From a Detractor… | Pastor Bill Randles Blog

  2. Pingback: Public Apology | Closingstages

  3. Hafz – I assume by your style of writing that I am addressing Kristin am I not?

    Strong’s is a perfectly valid concordance – it is usually considered the standard. In fact I often used it myself when I was studying biblical Greek at Nottingham University.

    “Dr James Strong and a team of scholars spent more than thirty-five years preparing the Strong’s numbering system which has become the standard for identifying words with links to the original Greek and Hebrew words. With the numbering system tied to a particular word in English, the average lay-person can easily study the meanings of the Greek and Hebrew words.
    First published in 1890, this tool is still used today by pastors, scholars and laymen alike for nearly a century.”

    As for the veiled threat of “defamation”.. you Randles take the biscuit on that front! If you want to break the scriptures YET AGAIN (1 Corinthians 6:6), then I am more than willing to take you on!

  4. Hafzbah,
    I’m not sure if you read the article or just the comments? You say: “There is every good indication from the text that Paul’s thorn in the flesh was actually a messenger of Satan sent to buffet him.” I agree with you, scripture says it’s so and that was one of the points of the article. Bill Randles took that scripture and applied it to sin. No where is the thorn in the flesh ever compared to the sins that we struggle with. It was clear that it was given Paul to prevent him from being exalted by either himself or men or both. Nowhere else in scripture is this thorn in flesh given to anyone else or compared to our sin.

    2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted about measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted about measure.
    2Co 12:8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
    2Co 12:9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

    While I can’t speak for the others who have commented here, I will say that in understanding “word concept fallacy” it simply does not apply; unless there is something that you didn’t clarify here and also in referencing us as being messengers of Satan this is also way out of context with the intent and meaning of this verse. The scriptures used concerning Paul’s thorn in the flesh as comparable to fleshly sin in our lives is erroneous, it’s not the same concept at all. It is classic cherry picking of scriptures.

    Now concerning the man who is angry at Moriel, that would be Tim and I’ll not speak for him but will leave some information here for you and anyone who may also be interested getting to the truth of Moriel.

    Toll free number 800-829-4933 IRS
    Call the number and ask for a copy of Moriel’s 2018 990.

    As for you last comment, please feel free to contact Bill Randles. Here is some information that may help you locate him. I personally think you already know who he is but if not, this information will certainly help you locate him.

    Pastor Bill Randles – 319-373-3899 (note this number was taken off of Believer in Grace Church site, if no longer valid I’m sure the email is).

  5. I see you’ve not posted my prior comment. Any reason? Your comments regarding this person named “Bill Randles” meet the criteria for defamation. Are you familiar with that term? If not, I would familiarize myself quickly if I were you. I’m going to see if I can locate this person and advise him on this. The kind of mudslinging you are engaging in here could be very dangerous in a pecuniary sense, not to mention I wonder how you would feel about having a lot of other “real” Christians looking at the kind of comments you make. I wonder just how understanding and forgiving they would be?

  6. I have never read such mean-spirited comments as the ones that are above. And to the person who likes to quote the Greek, look up the definition of “word concept fallacy” please. Also nobody who does serious study uses Strongs. Your ignorance is showing. There is every good indication from the text that Paul’s thorn in the flesh was actually a messenger of
    Satan sent to buffet him. That sounds like a role you all are familiar with.

    I want each one of you (other than the man struggling with his weight), to really honestly think about what the above comments would look like to a non-Christian person. Seriously, read them starting at the beginning and read each one of them. You should be ashamed of yourselves. If I were not a Christian and I read that stuff, would I want any part of it? Do none of you FEAR God?

    Who set you up as arbiters? Mike and Pat, do yourselves a favor, crack open your Bible and read James 3:1-11, please and that goes for the person named Teena. None of you has an iota of humility and yet it appears to be that you would identify yourselves as Christians.

    The man who is so angry at Moriel, if the situation is THAT BAD, why are you not reporting them to the authorities? You say “follow the money…”. What about Ephesians 5:11? It truly sounds like it is a corrupt organization from what you say, yet the only thing you are doing about it is posting a message on a blog? Shame on you as well.

    Please surprise me and allow this to be posted. I dare you.

  7. Notice on this video about David Lister that Lister states that he was a minister and after already being on the radio and taking on Brownsville/Toronto whatever he then met Jimmy Prasch. Well, take note that Lister, later on, states that Prasch helped him out of being addicted to heroin. What?? So was Lister a minister who was addicted to heroin? In my last conversation with David Lister, he stated to me that he would “Do whatever it takes to protect this ministry”. Lister is the guy behind the scenes that goes around sweeping up after Prasch has made a mess of things. Lister also isolates Prasch from most of the negative things that come into Moriel. Listers nickname is “The Politician”. And he is a pathological liar. David Lister in 2017 made 87,100 based on a 35-hour workweek. And that does not include his housing allowance and all travel and food paid for. So that’s a pretty sweet deal. Its a real shame that Jackie Alnor was sworn to silence about David Lister’s fellowship shutting down because Lister plagiarized Warren Wiersbe and others. If that’s not cult-like what is? Plagiarism is no big deal to Moriel anyway seeing that Prasch makes no situations what so ever in books allowing him to make things up or borrow from others. Lister continues to bear false witness against me to my friends and tries to drive wedges but Haller has done this as well so …That’s what cults do. I am speaking up now not to address the lies that have been stated publically about me by guys like Josh Chav but I just got tired of the spiritual bullying. Will this change the minds of most of the people following Moriel? Probably not because they have chosen to believe lies. A very scary place to be in the end times indeed. I hope to help people sitting on the fence. Just a side note. Prasch has spread it all around that Lister worked for Elvis… Funny thing because my mentor and friend the late great Hal Blaine used to play the drums for Elvis and he never heard of Lister. Did Lister have a different name at that time? I have no idea. So I watched the Memphis mob documentary on Elvis’s small circle on the inside. And there was actually a guy who kinda looked like Lister. It was not Lister but I can see where the strange mind of Prasch may have constructed his story from. These guys need prayer folks lets never forget that. But the spiritual bullying and the abuse that Moriel does to the Body of Christ needs to stop. If Jackie Alnor refuses to step up that’s her privilege. But I cannot be silent anymore for the sake of others. Blessings -Tim
    PS follow the money on these guys thats where the real story is

  8. What does Paul’s thorn in the flesh have to do with sin?
    It was a simple enough question, and a simple clarification would have sufficed from Bill Randles.
    Because Randles has been in “ministry” for a long time, does that make him superior and unanswerable?
    Apparently he thinks so!
    “For though the LORD is high, he regards the lowly, but the haughty he knows from afar.”
    (Psalm 138:6)

  9. Treena, sadly, by making statements like this, Haller, in essence, is in agreement with living an unhealthy lifestyle. With the health complications that arise due to obesity, it’s more likely that one will not just die quietly from obesity, but their quality of life will be greatly affected due to the complications that come with living in obesity. A quick look at obesity in the States and the health costs that come with it are staggering.
    I agree with Tim also in that all of them don’t seem to get the facts straight or even address them for that matter. B.R. consistently keeps the focus on his weight and being victim and only once addressed the more critical issues of his teaching error and that was to simply to deny it all; but never brought forth any scriptural rebuttal to dispute it or to explain himself, or even to perhaps say he mis-spoke. The conclusion according to B.R. is that his sermon is sound according to him and so as stated in the article that if one has been living in sin for decades and they say they love Jesus…… you just might not be saved and this would also have to apply to him, according to his own teaching. I hope that others take the time to really look through the scriptures and study this out for themselves, it is teaching like this that we sat under for years and it has terrible consequences on the body of Christ.

  10. Haller states glibly about his weight “and well people are going to die anyway.” This is highly irresponsible. As you said Pat.. “eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die”.

    “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.” 1 Corinthians 15:32 cf. Luke 12:19

    For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, Matthew 24:38

  11. Tim, observing Jacob Prasch, Bill Randles and others for years it is clear that when challenged the only answer you ever receive is ad hominid attacks on your person rather than a biblical response to the subject at hand. And as you know, those who only know ad hominid responses simply have no logical answer. There are no theological winds blowing from Randles direction as he cannot refute this article as we have him dead to rights. He is quoted verbatim and what he said does not line up with the text. Three words can simple describe Randles, “ERROR” AND “FALSE TEACHING” He has no argument so he simple calls you names. Only God can do it, at this point its best to leave him, and pray God will wake him out of his Word of Faith mentality. “He who has once begun to deceive others, is the less easily able to recover himself from error, and the more easily embraces in turn the errors of others.” – Johann Albrecht Bengel

    It’s what you would call birds of a feather, Randles ran so long with Prasch he became like him only with a different flavor, but he’s not any better than Prasch.

  12. The problem at large here is that whether it is Randles, Haller, Prasch whoever they don’t get their facts straight at all. So they really do not read the posts. Bill Randles stated above “Tim gives you the calorie count of a meal he had with haller,” When I actually stated this (and it’s in the above post) “I was with Jacob before he spoke at Haller’s church in Columbus. We ran through Arbys because Jacob said they were kosher. Jacob had 2 Arbys half-pound sandwiches with extra meat. Here is the calorie count from just one sandwich (from Arbys website.) end quote. I did not have the meal with John Haller I had the meal with Jacob Prasch when Jacob was speaking at Haller’s church. Prasch, Haller and Randles have a very difficult time with the facts. Either they do not pay attention or they do not care and willfully lie. And we expect them to get the facts about our brother in the Lord David Nathan right which is a much more complicated issue. And David has made everything completely clear.
    You see these false brethren will lie or ignore the facts because it does not fit their narrative.
    I have said it before and it is true
    Moriel and their associates make the facts what they want them to be.
    John is an attorney so I imagine he is very good at half-truths to make his clients or friends look in the best light.
    Listen to the first 15 min of Hallers latest News Update.
    Listen to what he says about half-truths and come to your own conclusions (even though he said his statement glibly)
    And he also states about his weight and well people are going to die anyway.
    People struggling with weight issues are one thing.
    People that just embrace it are in sin

  13. Bill Randles, I have the PROOF of how your wife has slandered David Nathan behind his back. I have taken screenshots of the relevant parts of her messages to me, and I have sent them to Tim Wirth since you keep insisting that he is a liar. Kristin asked me not to share her venomous remarks about DN with anyone else. However I made no such promise. Kristin does not know me… which makes me wonder, who else have either of you discussed DN with if you did not hesitate in sharing these venomous remarks with someone you don’t even know? This is no “gossip”. It is a provable fact that your wife has abused DN behind his back! You say: “Treena is bitter and angry, as well as dishonest.” How do your know what I feel.. and where is your evidence that I am dishonest? It is you and your wife who need to “come to Jesus” and repent of your own dishonesty and slanderous remarks about DN and others. These screenshots are irrefutable proof of who you really are! Who is the liar now?

  14. •Simply saying that you don’t “think” Paul’s thorn in the flesh was sin does not absolve you from teaching error. Let’s look take a closer look at the other things that you taught here.
    •40 years in the ministry you certainly should know that Paul’s thorn in the flesh had nothing to do with sin and to say you don’t “think” it was sin is completely deceptive and in error. Again Scripture plainly states why is was given to Paul. (scripture)

    The “thorn” in the Greek is skolops meaning “a sharp stake.” Paul’s agony was an impalement or crucifixion of all sensual impulses because of visions and revelations. This impalement “thorn” was given to keep him from over exalting himself BECAUSE of the visions and revelations. Obviously, it was Paul who was caught up “harpazo” to the third heaven and received “visions and revelations” vs. 1. I don’t think you have been harpazoed to the third heaven have you Bill? It must be noted that this thorn was given Paul from God, it was not a weakness of the flesh common to man. You are spiritualizing the text when you reference this text by saying;

    7:00 mark: “There’s not a Christian that’s ever lived, since Jesus came and died on the cross, that didn’t struggle with this sin or that sin”…. I don’t even know what Paul’s thorn was but Paul said look, I had this thorn in the flesh and I prayed that God remove it three times and He said you have to live with it and find out my grace is greater, it overcomes ok.”

    •7:30 mark: So Paul had his struggle, I’m not even saying it was sin, I don’t think it was; but God leaves us in a state of weakness naturally for the purpose of drawing us to His power. One day will do a teaching on this again 2 Corinthians….where he says I glory now in my weaknesses. I am happy and praise God for my weaknesses. That takes a lot of light to do that. I bedevil my weaknesses constantly. I say why do I have this thing, why do I have that appetite , why do I have this, why do I have that. But Paul’s say I praise God for my weaknesses because he says where I’m weak I’m strong and only a born again Christian can understand that. What weakness are you referring to here Bill? And how does it relate to Paul’s “ thorn” in the flesh? Show me where God leaves us in a state of weakness? Do all Christians have a “thorn” in the flesh i.e. a messenger of Satan to buffet us?

    It’s clear here that Bill is certainly referencing that weaknesses in 2 Corithians is the sin he struggles with in his own life….I bedevil my weaknesses, why do I have this or that or this appetite etc.
    However ,in 2 Corinthians Paul clears this up also by giving a specific list of “weaknesses” and NONE are sins we struggle with. Again we don’t glory and give God praise for our sin!!
    Paul lists 5 weaknesses that he glories in.
    2 Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’ sake; for when I am weak, then am I strong.

    infirmities: as-then’-i-ah From G772; feebleness (of body or mind); by implication malady; moral frailty: – disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.
    Reproaches: hoo’-bris From G5228; insolence (as over bearing), that is, insult, injury: – harm, hurt, reproach.
    Necessities: an-ang-kay’
    From G303 and the base of G43; constraint (literally or figuratively); by implication distress: – distress, must needs, (of) necessity (-sary), neededth, needful.
    Persecutions: dee-ogue-mos’ From G1377; persecution: – persecution.
    Distresses: sten-okh-o-ree’-ah From a compound of G4728 and G5561; narrowness of room, that is, (figuratively) calamity: – anguish, distress.
    One other critical point here is the last half of the verse says “for Christ’s sake” which means

    hoop-er’ A primary preposition; “over”, that is, (with the genitive case) of place, above, beyond, across, or causal, for the sake of, instead, regarding; with the accusative case superior to, more than. In compounds it retains many of the listed applications: – (+ exceeding abundantly) above, in (on) behalf of, beyond, by, + very chiefest, concerning, exceeding (above, -ly), for, + very highly, more (than), of, over, on the part of, for sake of, in stead, than, to (-ward), very. In compounds it retains many of the above applications.

    •The entire list; infirmities, reproaches, necessities, persecutions, distresses are not sins or weaknesses common to man that we struggle with, they are things we endure for Christ’s sake. If indeed Bill is correct that these weaknesses are sins then are we sinning “for Christ’s sake”? The answer is of course no

    10:15 mark I’ve heard this time and time again….you know, “I’ve been a Christian since the 1970”s I still struggle with porn or struggle wit alcoholism, stuff like that but I’m Christian, I love God with all my heart. “The thought that has been coming to me lately is know it just might be that you really aren’t saved. I don’t say that to hurt or insult anybody, that can actually be liberating. It just might be you got yourself into a Church someday, you were touched emotionally but you never really were born again and you don’t want to find that out at the end of your life. You want to find out as soon as possible. Agree with thine adversary quickly while you’re on the way with him. Cause you are on the way to the court. Agree with thine adversary quickly, so I think one of the most loving things I can do; and I always try to bring this message in wherever I go, is to show people, you know, could it be, or positively put; what are the signs, the true biblical signs that you are saved. Cause you have to have this straight.
    end 11:32

    What is clear is a thorn in the flesh was unique to Paul alone, (an intense, wearying affliction) had come by means of a messenger of Satan (most likely a demonically instigated assault). God’s providence clearly allowed this (grammatically, a “divine passive,” indicating God as the unseen Agent overseeing the entire process) that Paul might avoid being exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations.

    Everybody is welcome to chime in here and correct me if I’m wrong!!!

  15. “billrandles”, who is “pastorbulleandles”?

    Is this a 1 Timothy 3: 4-5 issue?

    They seem to speak from a position of close proximity to you, judging by the presentation style.

  16. Do you see what you are reduced to? Your blog is a vicious snakebite of bitterness, lies, and gossip. Tim gives you the calorie count of a meal he had with haller, lies about my wife and my church, your theological analysis of my sermon is a pathetic joke, not logical, not honest, and definitely without love or any fruit of the Spirit. Treena is bitter and angry, as well as dishonest, why don’t you guys come to Jesus?

  17. Actually no, Mike and Pat, the article didn’t refute my theology. I plainly said in my sermon, that I do not think Paul’s thorn was a sin. Nor did I say God made me fat to help me in any way. God didn’t make me fat, I did. Don’t deny that you two are cruelly mocking me, because you are.I wish you were honest, but your own bitterness doesn’t allow you to be so.

  18. Bill now your showing a level of immaturity not becoming of a 60 year old let alone a seasoned Pastor. The article was accurate and was not with the intent to bully you. But because you won’t refute your bad theology you resort to tantrums. Lets deal with the doctrinal issues. You misused the Scripture, period. There is no way around that, and the article clearly reveals that. This is why you resort to throwing fits and playing the victim. This seem to be a norm for you and only serves as a deflection from the facts.

  19. Tim, just wanted to thank you for sharing this and other truths, it has confirmed so much, even though some things were obvious, it’s always good for them to be absolutely confirmed. The truth isn’t always pleasant, but it is always necessary. Many still need to see and hear. God bless you.
    Treena, I agree with you concerning David Nathan, he was broken and humble and contrite. He corrected and asked for forgiveness and especially was concerned for the body of Christ in all of this. So for Bill R to actually say he doesn’t except what David Nathan has said and done is absolute ignorance and to carry the title of Pastor and say he doesn’t accept someone’s repentance and questions why “he would say it to begin with”……well …..consider Bill’s teaching on Paul’s thorn in the flesh and can’t we all say the same thing about Bill?……why would he ever say those things in the first place?……yet we see no remorse, repentance, sorrow or shame from him. Notice that his comments are always about him, never any concern for the body of Christ. Blessings

  20. Hey everybody, If I can help your miserable lives a little less miserable by being the target of your scorn, bitterness and out right ridicule, I guess its worth it it…Have fun, there is more to hate and mock about me, lots more!

  21. And Kris Randles staging a Praise and Worship video for damage control even tagging Moriel New Zealand admin Pierre Mosley in the post. Wow if thats not pandering for a gig what is? The question to ask is why were there no videos of Praise and Worship before Sept 1 (the timing is strange since I just called them out on this recently) I think it’s disingenuous. Really sad.

    As for the guys being overweight, I have been around all of them so there is a reason they are still big. I was with Jacob before he spoke at Haller’s church in Columbus. We ran through Arbys because Jacob said they were kosher. Jacob had 2 Arbys half-pound sandwiches with extra meat. Here is the calorie count from just one sandwich (from Arbys website .
    Serving Weight (g) 295
    Calories 610
    Calories from Fat 270
    Fat – Total (g) 30
    Saturated Fat (g) 12
    Trans Fat (g) 2
    Cholesterol (mg) 130
    Sodium (mg) 2040
    Total Carbohydrates (g) 38
    Dietary Fiber (g) 2
    Sugars (g) 5
    Proteins (g) 48
    Plus Jacob had a large shake to wash it down with. here is that calorie count. Serving Weight (g) 624
    Calories 690
    Calories from Fat 200
    Fat – Total (g) 22
    Saturated Fat (g) 15
    Trans Fat (g) 0.5
    Cholesterol (mg) 75
    Sodium (mg) 570
    Total Carbohydrates (g) 110
    Dietary Fiber (g) 1
    Sugars (g) 102
    Proteins (g) 21
    Check out the calories and sodium count. This kind of eating habit will kill someone.
    That one meal would be an average mans full day calorie count.
    Really sad and poor witness
    And yes people do struggle with weight
    But there are those who don’t struggle with weight
    And that’s sin
    Addiction to food is hard to overcome because of its instant gratification.
    No different than being addicted to drugs, porn or liquor.
    And all these things can kill you.
    And they are all sin.
    Often people will get off drugs and cigarettes and change to eating.
    God can help anyone with these struggles and God wants us to have a good witness to others.
    It’s bad to joke about these things
    Self-deprecation is a sign of a weak mind making excuses for something

  22. Amen to that! At least David Nathan tried to explain himself and apologised. Just who do these hirelings think they are?

  23. I wish just once to see a preacher in error admit it and publicly make amends repairing the fences they have destroyed with the body of Christ. In the past I’ve taught things in error, and when it was pointed out to me I took a serious look at it and amended my teaching both with public apologizes and correction to my teaching. Its not that hard, but instead of humility on the part of preachers today your are reminded that they have been on “office” for 30-40 years. Well, so have I but I still haven’t arrived, and in fact never will on this side of eternity, I strive! Get off your high horse and do the right thing for once.

  24. I admit its getting harder and harder to find men of God who stick strictly with Scripture. Seems everyone either has an over inflated ego, thrives on the “authority” of their office, does not set an example for others to follow, and is totally unaware of their own failings. My job here is to bring to light the false teachings of these men, that is my task for the sake of the Body of Christ. People see only what they want to see. But for some, those who are helped and come out from under these false teachers, it is worth it all. That Bill Randles weight was even mentioned was because he pointed the finger of condemnation to those who “smoke pot,” “drink alcohol,” or are under the bondage of something else yet he himself is as guilty in obesity and has been for years. As Treena said, he disqualifies himself of his pastoral office by remaining in obesity. The article was never meant to put him down, but to help him realize his need for help and to challenge him to do something now before his life ends prematurely. But a man who has ought against another will never receive godly counsel from those they are at odds with. They become stiff necked and stubborn in their ways. That people choose to only see his obesity mentioned in the article is theirs, that they choose to ignore the misuse of the Scripture is theirs also, I can’t do anything about that. With the measure one uses it is measured to them, that applies to all of us. The only thing I’ve ever seen from Bill Randles is his ability to call all of us lairs, which means his doesn’t see himself as obese, he doesn’t see himself mishandling the Scripture. I can’t do anything about that but what I can do and will do is continue to warn others. I will not spare preachers who are abusive with their power and lead others astray from the faith of Jesus Christ. I’ve counted the cost and I’m willing to pay the price.

  25. I agree with the false teaching part on Bill’s teaching. The speaking in tongues part also gets me. I have never gone to a church that does that. He does it often, quotes Watchman Nee also. I just thought the weight issue went above your calling out his false teaching. In other wards people see what you said about his weight and not what you said about falsely using scripture. I don’t listen to these guys anymore, there are so many false teachers, and the people they teach are not leaving. I have gone back to J. Vernon McGee!

  26. Randles has falsely implied that God gave Paul a sin or a temptation to sin “…there was given me a thorn in the flesh…” This does not fit with James 1:13 which states: “Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am being tempted by God’; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.”

    Randles should correct this teaching without delay as it is confusing and potentially catastrophic for uninformed believers. I doubt very much whether he will correct it. He will probably say that we are all “liars” again, and ignore his own obvious shortcomings as a teacher.

    This false teaching makes Randles attack on David Nathan’s theology quite ironic!

  27. Yes, Pastorbulleandles is certainly posing as the “real” Bill. It is ironic and somewhat funny that they use “bull” for obvious reasons! And yes the same scripture applies here, thanks.

  28. While Bill is obese that really wasn’t the only point of the article, what he is doing to the scripture and the error that he is teaching the body of Christ. Teaching error certainly is the weightier matter (no pun intended). His being morbidly obese is simply a fact, that also flies in the face of this sermon, where he questions the sins of others and their salvation.

  29. What we “THINK” you look like Bill Randles? You are in the public domain.. are we guessing what you look like? Most Christians (let alone elders and pastors), would be ashamed and embarrassed to appear in public with your level of obesity.

    Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? YOU HYPOCRITE, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. (Matthew 7:3-5).

  30. Perhaps it would have been better to start off by contacting Bill privately about what he said in the sermon?

  31. I think you have gone over the top. I use to cook for a nursing home and back then they did not have genetically modified food. Bill lives among the corn fields like I do and they are all genetically modified. Last year we saw an elk that was so massively fat that it blew us away, and a deformed deer very heavy in his front half and skinny in the back half. people don’t know how to cook. When I was in school there were no cooking classes and my mother did not teach me. I know a lot of beautiful saints who are heavy and I’m looking at their hearts which are all together lovely to me. The food we grew up with is not our grandmothers food. If you live in Europe and not in the United States you don’t have the same food as we do. Almost everything is genetically modified.

  32. Thanks Mike. It is good to know that sermon was so powerful, Satan moved you to critique it, even stopping so low as to try to disqualify me based on what you think I look like. I am a big man, and I am working on it all the time, but you don’t know wether or not I am a glutton because you don’t know me, or how I relate to food. Satan is speaking thru you though,so Iwill pray for you.

  33. I’d apply this all to John Haller of Fellowship Bible Chapel in Ohio who often casually jokes about his gluttony while also being morbidly obese. Randles and Haller are quick to preach, but they have logs in their eyes and donuts on their pointing fingers.

  34. On the subject of Bill Randles obesity, he should look at the qualifications required for elders in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:6-9.. “temperate/self controlled”. If an elder or pastor cannot control himself, he is not an example to the flock. Obesity on the level Randles has reached is a very visible sign to the church that he do not meet the requirements of a “pastor”.. It is also a bad witness to the world at large. Gluttony is compared with drunkenness in the scriptures: Proverbs 23:21. It would appear that Randles lack of self-control is not limited to the dinner table, but that it extends to verbally abusing and slandering others, both behind their backs and to their faces. This should be of great concern to his congregation.

    Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” was not sin.. it was given to him after his revelations.. it was not a pre-existing weakness or sin. Paul is quite clear on how to deal with the flesh:

    “But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.”

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