Following Mike and Pat Rogers’ public apology to Bill Randles, I have to say that Bill Randles irrational behaviour is quite something to behold! Unsurprisingly, Randles illogical suggestion that they follow the Matthew 18 process in order to resolve their differences has resulted in yet further issues.

The Matthew 18:15-17 Process:
Stage 1: If your brother sins against you, go and confront him privately. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. (v15)
Stage 2: But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. (v 16)
Stage 3: If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. (v 17a)
Stage 4: And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. (v17b)
Some thoughts: All this has taken place in the public domain. As such it is not an issue that can easily be settled privately by the Matthew 18 process. Nevertheless Mike and Pat did listen to Bill Randles and took appropriate action (stage 1). However, Bill does not listen to their grievances, which necessitates the involvement of one or two others (stage 2). If Bill will not listen to one or two others, and as they are not in a church setting, Mike and Pat cannot “tell it to the church”. As such stage 3 does not apply. At stage 2 if there is no resolution, I think they would need to decide whether to regard Bill as a “pagan or a tax collector”. In a church setting that would necessitate that Bill’s company is to be shunned. (Stage 4).
In any event, Bill invalidated the whole process when he vilified Mike and Pat publicly after Matthew 18 was initiated and after he had agreed to await their response.
[William RandlesTim Wirth it is not true what they posted about how”vile” Kris and I, and these hypocrites repost from Jacobs website when it serves their interest in sliming my name, such as when they posted Sergio’s lying rant … none of it is”hard truth”].  
A further violation of the process occurred when Bill copied another person into his email responses to Mike and Pat erratically without consulting them and without their permission.

Bill continues to flout the Matthew 18 process by adding to his list of original grievances.

In my view, resolution with such an unstable person will be very difficult indeed!

Further Problems

Both Bill and Kristin have broken the scriptures by making ad hominem remarks and accusations they are not prepared to back up with specific examples and facts. (2 Corinthians 13:1).

In my own case, Bill has accused me of being a “feminist”, but he failed to produce any evidence to substantiate that lie. He followed up by calling me an “abusive reviler”. Despite being challenged by me, Bill refuses to acknowledge my grievances with him and he completely ignores me. Is that scriptural?


UPDATE: 22/11/2019.. I have accepted Bill’s recent apology calling me a “feminist” on a previous rather obscure post. Still outstanding are the other accusations he made against me: “lunatic” “angry” “liar” and “abusive railer”.

When I asked Bill Randles to read my intra-seal critique on Prasch, he agreed, but he did not keep his word. His bias was obvious when he stated that Prasch might have got his teaching on ‘Counting the Omer’ a bit wrong!

Concerning David Nathan:

Bill Randles: “In my view, the original issue which triggered all of this boils down to two statements of David Nathan’s;

‘The blood of Jesus will not profit anyone anything in the Millennium’ and the twin statement in which Nathan strongly asserts that the blood sacrifices offered in the Millennium are in no way memorial. In other words, they do not point back to the cross of Jesus, as the Lord’s Supper does.

“God the Father did not Create anything” {1}

Can Bill Randles clarify why precisely he will not “forgive” David Nathan? If it concerns the millennium question, then it is not for Bill Randles to “forgive” a doctrinal error.. only the Lord can do that. We forgive one another our sins against each other, not doctrinal error. (Colossians 3:13). We “expose” false teaching – that is all. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. Ephesians 5:1.

Bill Randles: “So what is my problem? WHY HAVEN’T I ‘FORGIVEN’ HIM?

I have all kinds of problems with these two issues, but DON’T ASSUME I HAVEN’T FORGIVEN or don’t love David Nathan because it isn’t true..

DOCTRINAL ISSUES ARE NOT PRIMARILY A MATTER OF FORGIVENESS … they are matters of the determination of truth..”

This particular example of Bill’s double speak had the effect of muddying the waters, and it prolonged an already unpleasant episode. In my view, it was a deliberate attempt to further damage David Nathan’s reputation.
Further evidence of Bill Randles duplicity: 
We don’t have to get personal. If we could just be objective people, take a look at Scripture, put aside personalities put aside people being rude, this or that or the other. Do you really want to promote a man, who says the Father didn’t create anything? Or that the blood of Christ has no profit AT ANY DISPENSATION.. People have to remember where their true loyalty lies, it lies with the Word.” (1:17 mark).
To state that David Nathan was referring toANY DISPENSATIONis a complete fabrication! The original question concerned the MILLENNIUM, and in that respect David Nathan has clarified his position.
David Nathan: “The statement which I should not have made but rather should have sought to express myself very differently and that folk have objected to is, ‘The Blood of Jesus will not profit anyone, anything in the Millennium.’ In using this phrase, which I regret, I was not stating that the Blood of Jesus does not cleanse in all ages as this would be a clear violation of scripture. His blood alone can take away sin and every sacrifice from Genesis 3:21, when the Lord clothed Adam and Eve in tunics of skin to the sacrifices of the Millennium all point to Jesus. In the teaching I kept using the word atone to describe the purpose of the millennial sacrifices in the sense that they do not remove sin but cover sin. I reiterate again that I do not teach nor believe that the sin of an animal or animals can ever remove sin. Not under the Old Testament, not now nor in the age to come. Only the Blood of Jesus can remove sin both now and forever, including the millennium. This is and has always been what I have believed though I did not express it succinctly in the series on Eschatology.
I only offer the above as an explanation of why I used the phrase and not as an excuse for trying to justify using it. I was wrong to use it as it does not, nor ever did convey what I actually believe regarding the eternal cleansing power of the Blood of Jesus which alone removes sin for all ages.”  {2}

David Nathan: “The bible is absolutely clear that God is the creator. The Father ordained creation. Jesus was the creator in perfect unity with the Father.. not that God the Father was not involved in creation..” {3}

Kristin Randles has said all kinds of wicked things against David Nathan, as recorded on my previous post {4} .

Critically, Bill seems oblivious to the fact that Jacob Prasch thoroughly agreed with David Nathan’s millennial views. Bill has never acknowledged that fact – and that was his main bone of contention!

All these are the actions of a “pastor” who boasts of 40 years in the ministry!

Better is a poor person who walks in his integrity than one who is crooked in speech and is a fool. (Proverbs 19:1).


  1. It seems like Bill Randles and Sandy Simpson have the same attitude.

    Here is a quote from Bill Randles responding to somebody on his blog entitled ‘ An open letter to the Model Board”.

    billrandles says:
    October 19, 2019 at 3:13 am
    whoa,, wait just a. Minute Brian, I haven’t discounted any claim you make, I just choose not to promote the blog you cited as I seen hate, lies and much anger on it, not to mention misinformation. I don’t know about Jacobs ethnicity nor do I care…there are other issues I am interested…

    So Bill claims Jacob has been his friend for over 20 years and it doesn’t matter that Jacob has lied to him and the body of Christ all those years?
    Unless Bill knew all along? Wow, I’m almost lost for words.

    So what does Bill care about other than Bill?

  2. Sandy’s reply to Brian confirms the cult mentality at Moriel. Sandy, # 1. Denied clear evidence presented to him. # 2. Refused to review the evidence presented to him. # 3. Referred Brian back to the Leader ( Not to Jesus). # 4. Shamed a fellow believer for questioning the authority in the ministry. These are all signs of a Cult. He needs to “ come out from among them “. How can anyone actively participating in this group claim to be a discernment ministry? This includes the ministries that give Moriel members a platform. That is enabling.

  3. If anyone is still questioning Bill Randles heart, pop on over to his Facebook page, where you’ll see he posted Tim’s GoFundMe for Donna with this comment: “Very much with you Tim but please no more public comments about who gives and why”.
    Apparently “Pastor” Bill has never read Romans 16, where Paul publicly named many people that had helped him and blessed him. It seems like “Pastor” Bill doesn’t know his bible.
    Also, to use someone’s GoFundMe for an ill family member to make a dig is extremely low. And, the “dig” itself…is ridiculous. Where in the Bible does it say we can’t thank our brothers and sisters publicly for blessing us or helping us??? In fact, Romans 16 encourages us to do this. It’s called appreciation and love Bill! Seriously, how low will these people go.

  4. To everyone to the best of my knowledge since Sandy has broken fellowship with me, Sandy does not read or go to these blogs. The best way to get an answer from Sandy is to email him. Unfortunately Sandy did not examine all the evidence (if any) about David Nathan and refused to watch the video “Judas Kiss” about Bill Randles. So its Sandy’s call to just agree with the Moriel talking points even though he does not agree with all of them. I know he does not like Jacob’s “This Week in Prophecy” since it is not Jacobs forte and is poorly done. Its very disappointing to see someone as sharp as Sandy just avoid the actual facts. But Moriel handles the money for Sandys ministry so… very, very sad.

  5. Sandy needs to provide SOLID EVIDENCE to back his claims. Certainly OUR EVIDENCE that Prasch is a fake Jew and a false teacher is compelling. Does Sandy think that giving Brian a good telling off will cut it? These men are extremely arrogant and dismissive!

  6. Agreed powerplaypause, Sandy certainly should bring his evidence to prove Jacob Prash is all the things he says he is. By not doing so, brings confusion into the body of Christ. If Sandy can clear it up he certainly should.

  7. So Sandy Simpson is saying it is a lie to say Jacob Prasch is a fake Jew? And then he has the audacity to tell you to check the sources! Sandy, would you like to prove how it is a lie that Prasch is a fake Jew? Please present the evidence if you are so certain it is a lie.
    Also, please present the evidence that Prasch is “precious” and a “Christian”.
    Doing this will help prove you should actually be in discernment ministry. If there is no evidence to back up your claims about Prasch, then you aren’t discerning, you are deliberately NOT discerning in order to excuse your boss at Moriel.
    Also, Sandy, you state that Brian should be shamed for saying Prasch is a fake Jew, yet if you cannot prove that he is a real Jew then you yourself are engaging in spreading lies, and the shame will be upon you.

  8. We were surprised that Sandy Simpson continues with Jacob Prasch also. It’s unfortunate that he will not engage in or address the information and facts around Jacob Prasch. One would think that Sandy would be well equipped to defend Jacob Prach and provide scriptural evidence that would prove Prasch a sound teacher, rather than just telling us to read Jacob’s articles and stop lying. Sandy Simpson’s ministry is known for calling out false teachers, surely he could clear this up if he truly believes Jacob is not teaching error among other things. Thanks for sharing this Brian, I’m sure many have wondered about Sandy’s position on this. Tim Wirth has spoken on this some and it is sad to see.

  9. I sent this email to Sandy Simpson today to see what his response would be:
    Since you’re a ‘discernment ministry’ “isn’t it reasonable that you should checkout people that you promote on your webpage?
    Jacob Prasch has been proven to be a fake Jew, and a man that is incapable of consistently speaking the truth.
    So, are you going to be be like the people who defend their favorite false teachers, or, are you going to walk it like you talk it?”

    Brian Fox

    This was his reply:
    “ You need to check out where you’re getting re information from. Jacob prasch is a precious Christian and you need to actually read his articles and stop passing around a bunch of lies about him. Shame on you.”

    I don’t think he’s feeling where I’m coming from. 👀

  10. Looking at that picture of Jacob the fake Jew has me wondering…what do you think that belt size is he’s wearing? 58’-60’? 4XL/5XL?

    Talk about “slow bellies”!😲🍕🥩🍗

  11. Tim, I have to agree things are completely different behind the scenes for sure. We have and are witness to that currently. However, I will have to respectfully disagree with your statement:

    “PS I do not think this is funny but it goes to Bill behavior behind the scenes that most people do not see. A real shame because Bills doctrine is pretty solid.”

    When it comes to Bills doctrines being sound I have to say no. GMT mirrored my thoughts and own experiences in leaving a cult as Bill did with the WoF. He may have left the WoF but it didn’t leave him or something to that effect, there is much that still rings and smacks and clamors of WoF in his teachings, dialog and behavior. Not to mention he has hung with Jacob Prasch for a couple of decades. Even more apparent is his unsound/false doctrine on reconciling a brother in error along with the other seven men mentioned here

    It has been several months now that we and also Treena have tried to confront Bill and get a solid, sound scriptural answer as to what it would take for David Nathan to be reinstated as a bother in Christ and to date Bill has never brought any thing of substance or any scripture to light that would answer this question. Not to mention he doesn’t seem to have a good grasp of Matthew 18:15-20. Either that or he intentionally subverted the process, which didn’t apply to our circumstance to begin with.
    Lets go one step further with the old video of the famous Amos Farell, Haller, Huxham, and Bill and how Bill literally stated a lie at the end of the video saying that David Nathan said and taught “that the blood of Christ has no profit AT ANY DISPENSATION.” When it is clear that David Nathan did not say that. (1:17 mark).
    Now Bill calls David Nathan a serious heretic and more, says he won’t forgive him; then says he has. Bill is unstable and while there may be “good” in some of what he teaches we have to look at what Scripture says concerning leaven?
    The whole lump is bad.

    Gal 5:9  A little leaven (a slight inclination to error, or a few false teachers) leavens the whole lump [it perverts the whole conception of faith or misleads the whole church]. 

    Also it must be noted that many in the body of Christ have been mislead into believing that David Nathan did say this because they believed Bill Randles. Now Bill and the other seven are guilty of publicly promoting this lie. It was pointed out in another video that when you combined the “ministry” experience of these men that it equaled several hundreds of years of ministry. Which shows the true intent of these men, if they all willingly stood by that video and they did. This video should be taken down. Bill Randles needs to publicly correct and repent and ask forgiveness for this. Much damage has been done to the body of Christ and a brother in the Lord.

  12. This was not gossip its exposure to behind the scenes Bill Randles. Jacob totally ignored Bill which as you can see by the picture upset Bill. Plus I had mentioned that David was not there to defend himself. Again this was in a room full of people and I did not take a vow of silence that has been required by Moriel and people like David Lister in the past. PS I do not think this is funny but it goes to Bill behavior behind the scenes that most people do not see. A real shame because Bills doctrine is pretty solid. And Bill and Kris in the public are very friendly and approachable people who are often very kind. No strings attached? I will let you decide that.

  13. The irony – Bill defends his precious “ministry” and his deluded comparison to King David!

    “But then God ordains times when we have to walk through storms of scorn, rejection, deliberate misinterpretation by others, false witness against our own person, bitterness, and blame, (real or otherwise). I repeat, God ordains this, God himself is in it, for our good and above all else for his glory.”

  14. Pro 18:1  HE WHO willfully separates and estranges himself [from God and man] seeks his own desire and pretext to break out against all wise and sound judgment. 
    Pro 18:2  A [self-confident] fool has no delight in understanding but only in revealing his personal opinions and himself. 
    Pro 18:3  When the wicked comes in [to the depth of evil], he becomes a contemptuous despiser [of all that is pure and good], and with inner baseness comes outer shame and reproach. 
    Pro 18:4  The words of a [discreet and wise] man’s mouth are like deep waters [plenteous and difficult to fathom], and the fountain of skillful and godly Wisdom is like a gushing stream [sparkling, fresh, pure, and life-giving]. 
    Pro 18:5  To respect the person of the wicked and be partial to him, so as to deprive the [consistently] righteous of justice, is not good. 
    Pro 18:6  A [self-confident] fool’s lips bring contention, and his mouth invites a beating. 
    Pro 18:7  A [self-confident] fool’s mouth is his ruin, and his lips are a snare to himself. 

  15. I’ve gotta say I have caught Bill in mid gossip before and its just what he does. It doesn’t hurt my feelings. Its really quite immature and even though I called him and apologized to him for the way I said things he never retracted anything he said or the way he said it. Its OK I still forgive him

  16. I agree with you Mike. And, it breaks my heart to see good and honest Christians spiritually abused, the way that these men seem to do without an ounce of guilt. I agree Bill’s statements are extremely vague (for a reason). He can come back and tweak and twist his words to mean just about anything, when keeping them so vague. His words are empty, they mean nothing. And, I also agree it’s sad that they don’t have anyone over them, to report them. However, my personal opinion, I don’t think they have an advantage at all. They are not abiding to the rules in the Bible for being a “pastor” or bible teacher. You can’t view them as being in obedience to the Word of God in their pastoral “authority”. They are abusing it, and have no authority to demand anything until they repent. Bill and Jacob’s words mean zero. Mr. Baldwin called it right when he said Jacob can’t even be viewed as a Christian, due to his actions. Bill isn’t blameless and allows his wife to run amok picking fights with other Christians. They can demand all they want, until they repent, it should go in one ear and out the other. It’s not a light thing for them to demand biblical applications from the very people they are spiritually abusing. I think everyone over here has the advantage, because everyone over here has an extremely loving heart. Could you imagine trying to live day by day with a heart of stone? Yep, y’all have the advantage.

  17. Tammy – perhaps it was because “feminist” was the insult I picked up on initially. Bill should retract ALL the abuse he has dished out to every one of us and he should apologise unreservedly. Daniel 4:37.
    God bless.

  18. Well Tammy according to Bill I’ve said much worst about him. I would love to see that. However, he absolves himself of railing against others in spite of the facts presented by Treena, Tim, Pat and I, and others. I have only asked for answers. Show me from the Word or God why you do and say the things you do and say. Present evidence, he has never done either. It’s always some obscure statement that makes no sense or accusation. He complements with insults, apologizes with derogatory statements that follow, avoids accountability, yet we are the villains. But he has to so he can be the victim. But it comes with the territory. I will never follow a man who does not make himself accountable. But then this is where they have the advantage, I must submit to the word of God, when someone approaches me in correction I must examine the facts in light of scripture, take council and act accordingly. Men like Jacob and Bill are accountable to no one so it’s impossible to address issues with them as they are a law unto themselves.

    This is why you will never see a heart felt apology, or witness true repentance from these men.

  19. Treena, that is odd Bill felt the need to only apologize for calling you a feminist. I went back to tbckawaii’s video “Lynching Bill Randles” and went through the comments roughly. Let’s see here, Bill called Treena a lunatic, an angry feminist and a liar. Bill called Mike a liar and a moral midget. Bill called tbckawaii a “gal”, a woman, a coward, and told him to “man up”. Bill called everyone as a group, many names, like false witnesses, liars, slanderers, etc. But to my shock and surprise, Bill REALLY went after Tim. Bill called Tim selfish, self absorbed, vicious, a know it all, a liar, pathetic, a sniper, hateful, a rebel, Tim was also told to “be a man”, and Bill said Tim was like a rebellious teen aged drummer stuck in the seventies.
    I hope Bill knows he has much more to apologize for.

  20. This was really well stated by GMT “It may be accurate to phrase it this way: “they left the Word Faith, but the Word Faith never left them.” Why do they seem to display such a penchant for “authority” and control? Control over people, situations, narratives — “Whoever controls speech controls reality.” And thus the people behind the speech when it’s against them! “. The use of the prophetic word today is so over used as well. Thats why people tend to join the Gifts have ceased camp. Right along with the fake tongues camp. If someone is speaking (not a foreign language) but their heavenly language in public and no one gives am interpretation its just a fake made up tongue. You cannot be taught tongues and someone can not rub your belly and make your heavenly language come out. I know some people that use this gift in their prayer closets and thats cool. Its not my gift but if things are done decently and in order I have no problem with it. Mainly people use tongues in public as a control faction and raise themselves up to look more spiritual than others.

  21. Sadly, we see vitriol and contempt in Bill’s emails. Our blog is not a typical pastoral blog as Bill’s attempts to be. Bill is comparing apples to oranges and most people understand the difference.

  22. Bill says
    “Ps you compare blogs, you will never see the utter vitriol and contempt on my blog that you see on his”

    You think that is something to do with Bill only allowing certain comments? usually the ones praising him.

  23. I am beginning to think Bill is worse than Prasch! At least you know where you stand with JP.
    To be at close quarters with Prasch for 20 years says a lot about someone’s character. Can two walk together unless they agree?
    Bill’s affectation is showing through. I’m afraid he isn’t a nice man.
    Mike and Pat I believe you have tried to resolve the issue, showing humility, but it appears Bill can never be wrong!
    Bill portrays himself as a meek, mild, and humble servant but sadly it appears to be a veneer that hides a life of pride and arrogance. This is painful to type. The mask has slipped and he is trying to get it back on by twisting and gaslighting. I think he has a ego just like Prasch. One is overt and the other is covert.
    I truly believe David Nathan was the vessel the Lord used to expose them. All those egos in close proximity was overload. The three gurus.
    They had a good set up for years, feeding off each other and God’s people. Look at the fruit now!
    Praying the Lord will continue to open the eyes of those people still under the influence of this madness.

  24. The Randles profile is a peculiar one indeed and it provides for a very interesting case study. What can’t be overlooked from the outset upon examining their behavior (Bill, Kristin, et al.) is that they came out of the Word Faith movement. They started their ministry in the Word Faith movement, and their church was originally a Word Faith church. Bill can be found on various videos throughout YouTube discussing this. This fact is key and can perhaps serve as a starting point for explaining much as far as the perplexing ways they carry themselves within public ministry life (what their followers, and donors, are blind to and are not able to discern). It may be accurate to phrase it this way: “they left the Word Faith, but the Word Faith never left them.” Why do they seem to display such a penchant for “authority” and control? Control over people, situations, narratives — “Whoever controls speech controls reality.” And thus the people behind the speech when it’s against them! One should ask themselves why exactly does Bill Randles, a ministry leader, a “pastor”, mix it up with people on social media? Why would he feel that bothered to the point of being compelled to dive headfirst into some remote corner of the internet just because a handful of people bring up his name from time to time? I have never, ever, seen a Christian pastor display behavior like this. If you are in the public domain, then public discussions about you are to be expected. It’s called discourse. On a related sidenote, to make matters much worse his own family members (most notably his wife, as aptly pointed out by the commenter below) have been known to lash out and pick quarrels when things aren’t going Bill’s way, or when they perceive their image is in jeopardy…this apparently as Bill looks the other direction. There is documented proof of this on Facebook, Vimeo, and on this very blog. He must condone it and excuse it, perhaps even encourages it and applauds it. That would be extremely distasteful and appalling character for a “pastor”. Furthermore if this kind of erratic behavior takes place online, one might imagine how this could play out in real life. Accounts continue to circulate that there has been a steady exodus and abandonment of the Randles over the years from their church in Iowa (why?). Given this, perhaps there are deeper psychological issues in play here as far as explaining why they act the way they do. But maybe, just maybe, there are traces and remnants of Word Faith ideology and philosophy that have not been flushed thoroughly from their system. This possibility coupled with their two-decades long association with Jacob Prasch may well have been the key ingredients that have shaped who they have become. A ministry partnership based on pastoral and personal authority. Something the New Testament doesn’t recognize, at all.

  25. People are begging Bill to just stop, I’ve read one comment from a man named Sergio, he writes: “Bill, by your own words which you have spoken to me face to face, I know you are looking for nothing more than vengeance for what you perceive were wrongs done against you. You are good at semantics and at manipulating words to appear as a victim. This is deception and just adds to the wrongs. You are acting under the influence and authority of the emotionality your wife mistakes for spirituality. I don’t blame her because you have allowed it, just as Adam did with Eve, but it is the regrettable truth. You have engaged in unbiblical practices! Give up the worthless emotional bickering and practice what you once preached! REPENT AND RESTORE THE CHURCH THAT HAS BEEN ENTRUSTED TO YOU BEFORE IS TOO LATE! GIVE UP THE IMMATURE AND SICK BICKERING AND QUIT SHAMING YOURSELF! I told the same to your wife when she couldn’t resist her fleshy impulse to argue back and “compile evidence”. Not Godly. Jesus remained silent towards his accusers”.
    So, I searched to see what Bill’s response to this was:
    Bill’s response to Jacob Prasch about the statement above, “Also whose Idea was it to publicly weaponize the obvious hurt and frustration of my friend and brother Sergio? His unfortunate and unhappy statement about his experience at our church shouldn’t be used as a weapon to hurt us. Anyone at any given time can say anything when emotions and anger are running rampant, but wouldn’t it have been prudent to protect the body of Christ from this, and to cover brother Sergio from exposing his temporary bitterness? Love covers the Multitude of sins.”
    Just this alone, this example proves Bill is unable, unwilling to accept any correction or reproof. Sergio is not the only one I’ve seen beg Bill to just stop arguing and fighting with people. Bill might call this “railing”…but I call this truth. Bill didn’t address one issue Sergio brought up, instead blamed Sergio for being unhappy, bitter, emotional and angry.
    And, now everyone knows….NO ONE is getting an apology from Bill. Let’s all be thankful and grateful that we are able to apologize to one another in love through Christ, it’s imperative we are always able to do this.

  26. From Powerplaypause’s link, this is just one of Bill Randles comments (there are many more) Bill says, “There are lunatics such as an angry feminist named Treena who lie about me, and I don’t want to air their lies. She once published an attack on me by Dave Nathan, and challenged me for not answering, all the while knowing I had answered everyone of the charges he made. She also suborned a moral midget named Mike Rogers to pass on the same lie.” In just this one comment Bill insults and calls Treena and Mike names. And, he doesn’t feel he owes anyone an apology?

  27. Bill Randles
    Tue 11/19/2019 10:36 AM
    “Thanks for sharing! I am a sincere person Frank and cannot offer a reciprocal apology, for I have in no way injured Mike. I never knew him at all, when he began his vicious campaign of sliming my name. It was I who initiated Matthew 18 and he who refuses it, but now publicly claims that I am the one who refuses it.”

    This is not true, we never claimed Bill refused Matthew 18. What we said was that he disqualified himself from the process and application of it by doing several things. He wouldn’t add our witness to the emails (Treeena Gisborn) and many times Bill wouldn’t add his own witness to the emails (Frank Rogers). He keep insisting that he wanted to come to us and meet face to face, this is after he gave us the option of either face to face or my email. Since he had already established email and added his witness, we added ours it would have been foolish to meet face to face and then he accuses us later of refusing to meet, after we told him we were communicating by email. Then we see where he was commenting on fb post calling us names while we were in process of responding to him. I will paraphrase his excuses, at the moment I’m just to tired to look up the quotes. First, Bill says, that he basically had the right to comment and call names since we hadn’t gotten back to him and we only stated that we were going to seek counsel and prayer about it before we responded and that we had not removed or altered our comments on our blog about him yet so that gave him privilege to do that. …..Really!! What?? Just a note; the comments and other changes had already been made by that date but that really isn’t the point. Another excuse Bill uses,was well what I said wasn’t as bad as the things you’ve said about me and what I said was true. I can’t help but think this is somewhat on a level of immaturity that doesn’t fit into an adult pastoral role. As I write this, all I can think of, is you just can’t make this stuff up, it’s so ridiculous and juvenile.

  28. Powerplaypause, thanks for the link…and YIKES!!! I was more shocked at Bill’s comments than anyone’s. He insulted everyone over here. I think it’s completely disgusting how he went after Treena the way he did. This man calls himself a pastor? The things he said about Treena….he should be ashamed of himself! And he hasn’t apologized for that??? That speaks volumes.

  29. Here Frank Rogers weighs in as Bill Randles witness. We have also updated Bill Randles correspondence page to include these emails also. We are grateful to Frank for responding and to all of those we sought counsel from. It is apparent from Bill’s response that he will continue as he has been.

    Frank Rogers
    Tue 11/19/2019 10:13 AM
    Dear Pastor Bill and Brother Mike,

    God has put it on my heart to bring one last appeal for peace in this situation where I see the ripple effect of Prasch’s angry sword swinging on the Body of Christ. How much of the New Testament is about peace and unity in the spirit of love within the Body of Christ?

    Col 3:” 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

    12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

    15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.”

    Pastor Bill, I believe Mike had shown great humility and grace in initiating peace with you by issuing a public apology and removing much content he felt was done improperly. I believe if you really seek peace you will have to bring forth your own apology to Mike and others instead of simply claiming the high moral ground and publishing their humble apology. If you cannot return grace for grace, humility for humility I highly doubt you will achieve peace with mike and others. What-aboutism will not suffice here, instead of pointing the finger it must start with you Pastor Bill. True humility seeks to be the initiator in owning up to our own error first. Life is very short let’s fix what can be fixed and be unified in peace and in Christ.

    God bless you both as Pastors and fellow brothers

    Bill Randles
    Tue 11/19/2019 10:36 AM
    Thanks for sharing! I am a sincere person Frank and cannot offer a reciprocal apology, for I have in no way injured Mike. I never knew him at all, when he began his vicious campaign of sliming my name. It was I who initiated Matthew 18 and he who refuses it, but now publicly claims that I am the one who refuses it. My policy for the time being will be to ignore him, pray for him and try to ignore his spare of vicious and
    Libelous articles. I do apologize to you for ever trying to bring you in as a witness brother. Pastor Bill. Ps you compare blogs, you will never see the utter vitriol and contempt on my blog that you see on his, it is almost as if he and Treena are obsessed with me, todo
    Me harm. No moral higher ground, just facts for any fair minded man to see

    Mike Rogers
    Tue 11/19/2019 5:15 PM
    Thank you Frank, we are grateful you have weighed in and appreciate your wise words. We are also very thankful to have had wise counsel to help navigate through this and kept us all covered in prayer. We continue to keep you in prayer as you too call out the many sins and error of Jacob Prasch. As you say the ripple effect has affected so many.We are thankful for God’s grace and mercy as we are seeing some come out of this poison. Once again, Bill, we were very clear on why we choose to disengage, our counsel concurred, it was your behavior and actions that proved to be in error and unsound.

    Praying that God continues to do His work in us.

    Mike and Pat

  30. I just quickly want to add…I don’t expect an apology from Bill’s wife, it would be nice to get one, but I’m not holding my breath. I also can’t say that my situation is anything near what y’all have gone through. My interaction simply resembled trying to get an internet troll to quit trying to pick a fight with another person…and the result was that of a typical troll. I think the thing that effected me the most was that it wasn’t coming from a troll…it was coming from a pastor’s wife. From her trying to pick fights to coming on my personal page, making comments on my personal posts, making fun of my page, and trying to get me involved in their dispute with Jacob Prasch….I was taken back by it all. When I reached out to Bill, to express what his wife was doing to both me and Josh Chavez, he didn’t respond. I have to say, I felt justified when I saw 3 other women asking Bill’s wife to stop as well, and it didn’t shock me when she removed their posts and blocked me. So, I just want people to know…I’m okay…please don’t worry about my situation, it small beans compared to what you have gone through. I’m more worried about y’all. Y’all have gone through a lot.

  31. And Bill shouldn’t be a pastor because he definitely goes for round two and three at the All-U-Can-Eat Buffet!

    Just saying 🍕🥩🍗

  32. Mike and Pat…yes, please feel free to use what I post at any time. I look forward to your article.

  33. Thank you Tammy, I realize Bill Randles has ignored your plea for a public apology which he and his wife should do. But like Jacob Prasch he is an unrepentant man who has vilified others himself and continues to. I’m currently working on a article on the subject and would like to include your comment if that meets your approval. Playing the victim is a powerful tool used to deflect ones own erroneous behavior while placing the blame on others. It’s the ultimate form of self deception. I have seen this countless times. It is something we all have to guard against as being honest with oneself is often one of the greatest battles we face this side of eternity. In my opinion Bill only wants what Bill wants as a true pastor would acknowledge your grievances in a desire to minister to the body of Christ and set an example for others to follow.

  34. Thank you for your comment on my blog Pat. As a result I have added the following to the main body of the original post.
    Further evidence of Bill Randles duplicity:
    “We don’t have to get personal. If we could just be objective people, take a look at Scripture, put aside personalities put aside people being rude, this or that or the other. Do you really want to promote a man, who says the Father didn’t create anything? Or that the blood of Christ has no profit AT ANY DISPENSATION.. People have to remember where their true loyalty lies, it lies with the Word.” (1:17 mark).
    To state that David Nathan was referring to ANY DISPENSATION is a complete fabrication! The original question concerned the MILLENIUM, and in that respect David Nathan has clarified his position.

  35. I read this quote yesterday, it seems fitting right now: “The victim stance is a powerful one. The victim is always morally right, neither responsible nor accountable and forever entitled to sympathy”. I just read Bill’s article “When They Curse and Throw Stones”. And, I predicted this was coming (No, I don’t go to Bethel Church in Redding…LOL). I’ve seen these “responses” from Bill too many times to count now. Without details and facts they mean nothing. Bill states his name is being tarnished, he’s being lied about and criticized unjustly. Without details and facts, nothing can be done. I’ve seen Bill correct someone and it’s absolutely ridiculous, here’s one example: “Tim, correction. I didn’t say I “often stuck up for Deborah and Stewart”, I merely said “I stuck up for them”. Yeah…that word “often” needed to be cleared up…smh If we were to critique Bill’s words like he critiques others, (like a lawyer), you could write a book! Bill doesn’t want to fix things…he wants to nit pick, and cry victim. If Bill wanted to fix things, he would have accepted the apology given to him, he would have also apologized to everyone he has come against, and he wouldn’t have written that blog slamming everyone. If Bill wanted to fix things, he would go into detail in his newest article. What lies and what critiques are in error? It could be something as simple as the word “often”? That could be cleared up easily…but instead Bill is going to make a huge production over his martyrdom (a display of feigned or exaggerated suffering to obtain sympathy or admiration).
    People have approached Bill with things he has said about them, wanting to clear up those issues, and clear their name. Can Bill touch on the fact that he has dragged others through the mud, and refuses to apologize for it…in fact, Bill just didn’t refuse to apologize for it…he doubled down on it. It’s a rare thing for a pastor to go back and forth with people on social media. Two come to mind, JD Hall and Chris Rosebrough. However they have “Discernment Ministries”, and it usually comes with the territory. However Bill is just your run of the mill type of pastor…how is it he gets into so many online arguments???
    Maybe Bill subscribes to Jacob’s theory of what true Christianity is? Jacob said true Christianity is when a Church or Christians are suffering persecution. Maybe Bill feels he needs to create situations where he needs to be a victim in one way or another to represent his “true Christianity”?
    What did I get out of Bill’s newest article? Nothing. It was just another vague “response” blog and video, where he again is the victim while ignoring his involvement in his own little drama. When Bill heeds to Sergio’s plea, things might get better for him. Until then, we can look forward to more blogs and videos of the perpetual victim.

  36. Powerplaypause. Lol. Pastor Bill and Keyboard Bill. Believe it or not, that’s the best explanation for this unusual behavior I’ve heard. I get that. 😁

  37. There is something very wrong here Tammy. Bill does not seem to be able to keep his word or to recognise that his behaviour is highly offensive and unscriptural. Thank you for your comment.
    God bless you.

  38. There seems to be two divergent personas. Pastor Bill, and Keyboard Bill. Keyboard Bill is the one who has shot Pastor Bill’s reputation to pieces. Pastor Bill doesn’t seem to be aware of Keyboard Bill, so is on the hunt for another suspect, and in the process of that hunt becomes Keyboard Bill without realising. It’s a bit of a cycle.

  39. Treena this is an excellent post. When I came across Mike and Pat’s apology on their blog, I went over to Bill’s blog, to read his apology to them…only to find a post he made basically slamming them. Bill accepts their apology while in the same breath insulting them, and others. Then, he seems so confused to why that didn’t go over so well, stating “that didn’t last long”. What a strange world Bill lives in.

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