Many thanks to Treena for your work, discernment and diligence in rooting out the many falsehoods and lies. God bless


 (44) Is Revelation Chronological? Prophecy Roundtable: An Entertaining End Times Chat! – YouTube
The above is a discussion on the question of whether the book of Revelation is written thematically or chronologically with Doug Hamp, John Haller, Scott Harwell and “special guest” Alan Kurschner. The description: “An Entertaining End Times Chat” depreciates the critical importance of this subject for the church, especially considering that many believers are both deceived and confused about the timing of the rapture. Entertaining the masses to get clicks and hits seems to be the goal of many so called ministries today! The video was beset with technical problems and came across as amateurish. 
Doug Hamp is the President, and Scott Harwell is a Director, of The Commonwealth of Israel Foundation. {1}  
John Haller is an elder at Fellowship Bible Chapel in Sunbury, Ohio, and is a long time supporter of the false teacher known as “Jacob” Prasch.
Alan Kurschner (Eschatos Ministries) outclassed his roundtable associates with his considerable expertise. The above YouTube video was beset with technical problems and came across as amateurish. Kurschner kept his dignity, despite being subjected to Doug Hamp’s discourteous behavior concerning “theophanic storms”, i.e. the phrase he has employed to describe various storms that occur in the book of Revelation. Hamp: “I don’t think calling them ‘theophanic storms’ lessens their severity just because we have a fancy theological name for them.. in my opinion.. ..I am not persuaded that it is a ‘god storm’, I think that’s a cheap shot.” (44:00 mark) I have not heard Kurschner apply the phrase “theophanic storms” to the Revelation 6 cosmic disturbances. As far as I am aware, he applies the phrase to Revelation 8:511:19 and 16:17 (though he may not limit the phrase to those particular storms?). The wicked know exactly what is occurring in Revelation 6 and they witness a visible manifestation of God, in other words, they witness a theophany prior to the outpouring of God’s wrath. As such it does not seem inappropriate to call these various storms “theophanic”. One thing I have observed is that Alan Kurschner does not make cheap shots!
..calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb..  (Revelation 6:16).“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven. (Mark 13:24-27).Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. (Revelation 11:19).Hamp’s eisegesis concerning the sixth seal and the seventh seal trumpets and bowls is neither well researched or thought out. The book of Revelation is written chronologically from chapters 4-12 and from chapter 12 onwards apart from parenthetical breaks. It therefore seems unlikely that the numerical sequence should be broken by defining the sixth seal cosmic disturbances as the final seventh seal judgements. Kurshner’s chronological argument is the most logical, and more importantly, it can be demonstrated exegetically.
Hamp’s thematic argument is that the sixth seal cosmic disturbances of Revelation 6 are so severe, that in his opinion, they are not a portent of impending wrath, but are rather a description of the end itself. The cosmic disturbances are certainly extreme and terrifying. However, we should not make the assumption that they equate to the final wrath of God as described in the seventh seal passages. As Kurschner points out elsewhere, “similarity does not equal identity”. {2} 
The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. (Joel 2:31Acts 2:20 repeats Joel 2:31 and confirms the definition of before/πρὶν. And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place. Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?” (Revelation 6:12-17).Immediately after the tribulation of those days: The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31). This passage concerns the rapture, which occurs immediately after the cosmic disturbances, before the onset of the Day of the Lord, hence the term “prewrath”. Hamp’s problematic position places him firmly in the post-trib, not in the prewrath camp.  JACOB PRASCH HAS BEEN EXPOSED AS A CULT LEADER, A LIAR AND A FALSE TEACHER!

I was disturbed to see Scott Harwell giving credibility to Jacob Prasch’s intra-seal nonsense. Prasch’s intra-seal theory is a confusing concoction that incorporates various pre-trib and prewrath elements with no small dash of eisegesis. Hasn’t enough evidence been submitted concerning Prasch’s Metatron heresy? Furthermore, it is shameful to even mention the name of a man who has provably lied about his identity and faux “Jewish” background, not to mention various other unsavoury episodes. Prasch’s nonsense has been thoroughly debunked and should not have crept into this discussion! (3) If we want a credible discussion about eschatology then “Jacob”, or rather James Prasch’s ravings should be entirely disregarded! How many times does this have to be said? It is the responsibility of leaders to protect the flock from deceivers like this, not to promote them! Believers should mark and avoid such people:I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. (Romans 6:17).

Scott Harwell pleads almost total ignorance of Prasch’s Metatron heresy in his response to my YouTube comment. Harwell’s excuses for Prasch, are, I suspect, yet another case of willful ignorance:

This does not clear it up! Prasch has taught unequivocally that the Metatron is Jesus Christ:


Below is a link to Chris Rosebrough’s video exposing Prasch’s failed attempt at identity fraud. I add the “caveat” that I do not hold Rosebrough’s Lutheran views.

(46) F4F | What the Evidence Shows Regarding Prasch’s Ancestry – YouTube1. About (commonwealthofisrael.com)
2. Why the Bowls Follow AFTER the Trumpet Judgements: The FINAL Storm Theophany (Part 6) – Ep. 158 | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
3. THE INTRA-SEAL RAPTURE DECEPTION EXPOSED: As devised and taught by Jacob Prasch eBook: GISBORN, TREENA: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Store


  1. I think I should have added that I do not view this discussion as an “entertaining chat”. This description depreciates the critical importance of this subject for the church.. especially those confused about the timing of the rapture. Thank you for sharing. God bless. xx

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